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We do have MLS shown regularly on a terrestrial TV channel and the standard sometimes struggles to even match the Championship over here.
And we don't tease Americans for inventing the word 'Soccer,' anyone with half a brain knows it comes from Association Football, we just mock you for being the only country that uses it.
Anyway, I liked the article and I pray that I can shout to all my American, soccer hating, USNT bashing friends (who won't really care, to be honest): "I told you so."
However, it further perpetuates this notion that they are rival sports. Coupled with the descriptions "macho" and "dumb" the line just adds fuel to the fire to the fault lines within America. One of the obstacles to soccer's popularity (despite Ant's protestations, I find it very handy to switch terminology depending on the linguistic circles I am dealing with) in the United States is the way it is culturally embedded.
American football is stereotypically associated with the "American cowboy" stereotype, and soccer is associated with equally destructive stereotypes. This creates cultural predispositions to dislike the sport. We should be interested in destroying these stereotypes and show that both sports can be enjoyed by a wide population, rather than reinforcing the already problematic disputes.
So who do you want to win tonight?
For example, Chelsea fans are often referred to as plastics; not so long ago Chelsea was an unremarkable team playing in a crappy stadium with half the attendance you see now. Fast forward to the present day and Chelsea enjoys sells out crowds. Who are these new fans? Where did the come from? Plastics. That will be the answer from, say, Spurs fans.
It's a form of cultural snobbery. And the English are good at that. The same principal applies here; American fans didn't grow up in the English footballing culture, so how could they possibly know more about the game than an Englishman?
It's a shame really. We all stand to benefit if more Americans embrace the game, so their' interest in football should be nurtured by their English cousins, not mocked.
MLS teams won't get the respect we crave until they start winning the international tournaments they are in. Send an MLS team to the Club World Cup, have them do well, and after a few times, the rest of the world will start showing some respect to MLS. Until that happens, all the whining in the world won't make a difference.
You want respect? Win.
I think some of that starts tonight.
England 1-2 USA
And the point about plastic fans by ossie's dream is not snobbery, i must point out. In chelseas case, their fans have been stereotyped, but its more about loyalty than snobbery. No true fan would call a Man U fan a gloryhunter if they really did support them since they were a kid, but its the ideas that many fans switch alleigances just for the glory that riles us.
Rant over, as Capello might put in a new faces, this should be a gd game, but over 90 minutes I belive Enlands better strength in depth (while not that great) will eventually show, but the USA will hold out for at least an hour id say, they sould be gd enough to press England back for much of the game.
We, incorrectly, still think that England are the best team in the world and have the best league in the world. Yes, we had 3 teams in the Champions League semi's this year and last but one swallow doesn't make a summer. The EPL has still only provided the winners of the Champions League 3 times in 15 seasons and in the UEFA Cup/Cup Winners Cup it's the same result. Hardly the stuff of domination is it?
The old arguement that foreign footballers "Don't like it up them" still pervades British thought and gives us an arrogance that allows people to laugh when we once again fail to win a major tournament at either club or international level. Look at the press coverage of the Rangers v Zenit St Petersburg final. Zenit had destroyed Bayern Munich Leverkusen and beat Marseille, but it seemed all Rangers had to do was turn up to win.
A level of humility in football would go a long way to detering that and sometimes realising that their are other teams who are actually better than us.
As for the States, I'd move there tomorrow. I love it.
I find it ironic because on the plane I was next to a Parisian guy who spent five hours talking football with me wanting my opinion as a knowledgeable American about French football and eating up anything I told him about the game in the US. He found it somewhat amussing what I told him I expected in London of the English. He said "that is typical of the English."
What's ironic is the reaction starting in the immigration line at Heathrow was of me being a "dumb yank" and knowing nothing about football and comments like "stick to a sport you understand." Now the French have had FAR more success than England in recent years yet their fans don't say these things to me!
Atlanta Pompey, England won't give us respect until we win something? They haven't even made the finals of a tournament since 1966 and don't give France or Holland much respect despite all their success.
The English are understandably insecure and frustrated with the performance of their national side, not even managing to qualify for the European Finals. As I understand it football in the US is still very much a minority interest sport, yet the national squad has still managed a reasonable world ranking. It would be the ultimate humiliation for the English team to be overtaken by a nation where most people barely know the rules or take any interest! To be inferior to the football mad Brazilians or Argentineans is one thing, but the US? I think this deep routed fear, and lack of self confidence, may underpin the English lack of respect shown toward the US game.
Exactly how much respect should be shown to the US game? Looking at the proposed line up of the US team for tonight, I’d say not an awful lot. There are 3 players from Fulham (who finished 4th bottom in the EPL this season and just avoided relegation) there’s a defender from Derby! (finished bottom in the EPL), and some guy from Watford (not even an EPL team). Whereas the English squad is predominately Manchester and Chelsea players (this years European Champions league winner and run up). Having said all that, it wouldn’t surprise me if the US won! Oops! There’s that English insecurity and lack of self confidence again.
Paul Bestall – Don’t really agree with everything you’ve said, I think you’re being a bit selective when saying that the EPL has only produced 3 Champions league winners. I think it would be fairer to include European Cup wins as well (i.e. the for-runner to the Champions league) you then find that England is joint top with Italy and Spain, providing 11 winners each.
Ajax won it 3 years in row, as did Bayern Munich in the 70's too. How far do we go back? Before you know it, we'll be banging on about 1966 all over again or West Auckland, the first team to win the first international trophy when they beat Juventus 6-1 in 1911 !!
:)
I’m very sorry that some people have made some stupid and provocative remarks towards you. This is a shameful aspect of the British ‘yob’ culture. Please try to turn the other cheek, and don’t end up feeling bitter towards all English people. Also who told you the English don’t give the French or Dutch much respect… you’re French friend perhaps? Any way hope you enjoy the match, I expect there will be plenty of rude comments etc…. but that’s football!
Liverpool 5 times- 1976,77. 1977,78. 1980,81. 1983,84. 2004,05
Nottingham forest- 1978,79. 1979,80
Man U- 1998,09. 2007,08.
If you notice there is a period where the league is won 6 times in a row by an english team. Also i think that when a nation has had good football clubs and a decent national team they would not lose there self belief, confidence and a bit of their pomp. It may be the same for caribbean fans of the West Indies cricket team who had so much success in the past.... might be getting a bit to confounding for the american reader.
I think most of the hype about British football comes from the Media, anxious to sell papers or to get us to tune into the match and watch lots of adverts etc. Most people I talk to aren’t quite as confident about the stature of British football in Europe or the world.
Still don’t really agree with you about English clubs in Europe though. English clubs have an indisputably good record in the European / Champions League competitions. You don’t have to rely on results from the dim and distant past; English clubs have won 3 out of the last 10 (30%), 2 out of the last 4 (50%), and have had 6 out of 8 semi finalist in the last 2 (75%). All recent statistics, and the indications are that there may well be more wins in the near future.
The two greatest Anglophone nations in the world, and they ain't got no respect for their mother tongue.
From an American, for the curious, and a big-time 49er Faithful.
I'm Welsh, so I hope that the USA wins tonight.
Jessie,
Good catch! I'll fix that now.
All,
As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of NFL football :)
Cheers,
The Gaffer
Yes, of course, but look at Spanish clubs success in the same period, they've won it 4 times, had the first same country final in 2001 and 3 wins in the UEFA Cup. I just think we need to take a step back sometimes and realise we're not as good as we keep banging on about. What have Spain won since 1964?
Will Inter Milan, AC Milan, Real Madrid and Barcelona be as poor next season? We can only wait and see.
Today the US looked no better than a pub team with the English barely getting out of second gear for the majority of the game. The one touch football at times was poetry in motion - whereas the US were labouring aroubd the field liek a bunch of old donkeys.
After this game, the US will still get no respect for their national team and the MLS. Get use to more mediocrity for the next World Cup and beyond.
Cheers
"Powerhouse"? Give me a break. That term should be reserved for nations like Italy, France, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, etc.
I'm pretty sure that a lot of the other Anglophile countries (Australia (they call Aussie rules football football) and Canada (CFL football, baby!) at least, if not New Zealand and sometimes Ireland (since they play their own Gaelic football)). Just sayin...we're not the only ones who say "soccer."
Oh and for the person who stated this - 'They haven’t even made the finals of a tournament since 1966 and don’t give France or Holland much respect despite all their success', finals are the name of the stage of the tournament hosted by a host nation, not the final game contested by two teams, France have won the world cup the same number of times as England, Holland havent, and our top flight has a higher co-effcient tthan both of those allowing the premier league to have 4 teams in the champions league and the FA to enter another 3 into the Uefa cup. Those are some of the reason why we, along with most of Western Europe are known as a footballing power.