33 comments

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  andy

  1 year ago

  boooooooooooooooooooo
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  Ant

  1 year ago

  I don't think it's snobbery that has us Brits mocking the quality of the MLS, it is the fact that the standard is extremely poor.
  
  We do have MLS shown regularly on a terrestrial TV channel and the standard sometimes struggles to even match the Championship over here.
  
  And we don't tease Americans for inventing the word 'Soccer,' anyone with half a brain knows it comes from Association Football, we just mock you for being the only country that uses it.
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  Utd fan

  1 year ago

  MLS is garbage (not even on par with the CCC yet), but it's getting better every day and I'm looking forward to its expansion into the NW.
  
  Anyway, I liked the article and I pray that I can shout to all my American, soccer hating, USNT bashing friends (who won't really care, to be honest): "I told you so."
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  Ryan

  1 year ago

  Good article Gaffer, I don't understand the pointless dig at the NFL though. I passionately enjoy both footballs, I think if soccer(sorry) people would stop ripping on football(throwball?) people, and vice versa, it would help soccer's popularity expand greatly. Who cares what its called? Just enjoy the product on the field.
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  chrissy

  1 year ago

  the most annoying thing about US soccer fans is that there are too many Man Yoo fans :(
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  jm

  1 year ago

  I think Ryan makes an astute point, and I too was disappointed to see the dig at the NFL. I certainly have no qualms with the Gaffer disliking it, I myself enjoy it, but that's a matter of taste.
  
  However, it further perpetuates this notion that they are rival sports. Coupled with the descriptions "macho" and "dumb" the line just adds fuel to the fire to the fault lines within America. One of the obstacles to soccer's popularity (despite Ant's protestations, I find it very handy to switch terminology depending on the linguistic circles I am dealing with) in the United States is the way it is culturally embedded.
  
  American football is stereotypically associated with the "American cowboy" stereotype, and soccer is associated with equally destructive stereotypes. This creates cultural predispositions to dislike the sport. We should be interested in destroying these stereotypes and show that both sports can be enjoyed by a wide population, rather than reinforcing the already problematic disputes.
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  Sam Dalton

  1 year ago

  Obviously you have lived in America for quite a while now Gaffer, but used to live in Britain.
  
  So who do you want to win tonight?
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  ossie's dream

  1 year ago

  English football fans obsess over "authenticity." That is to say, who is the more "authentic" fan. One of the worse insults you see and hear in the pubs, terraces or message boards is "plastic," ("plastic fans," "plastic wankers," or merely "plastics"), a plastic being a new, fair weather or casual fan, who often holds forth with their opinions despite not being as immersed in the game as a hardcore supporter - the type that has owned a season ticket since the black and white era, travels on the midweek away days to Wigan, can remember the names of all the "top boys" from the 80s, etc., etc.
  
  For example, Chelsea fans are often referred to as plastics; not so long ago Chelsea was an unremarkable team playing in a crappy stadium with half the attendance you see now. Fast forward to the present day and Chelsea enjoys sells out crowds. Who are these new fans? Where did the come from? Plastics. That will be the answer from, say, Spurs fans.
  
  It's a form of cultural snobbery. And the English are good at that. The same principal applies here; American fans didn't grow up in the English footballing culture, so how could they possibly know more about the game than an Englishman?
  
  It's a shame really. We all stand to benefit if more Americans embrace the game, so their' interest in football should be nurtured by their English cousins, not mocked.
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  AtlantaPompey

  1 year ago

  England won't show us more respect until we accomplish something worthy of respect. Winning at Wembley would be a good start. Advancing deep into the World Cup would be even better. We've done that once, but we needed a lot of help to advance out of the group stage.
  
  MLS teams won't get the respect we crave until they start winning the international tournaments they are in. Send an MLS team to the Club World Cup, have them do well, and after a few times, the rest of the world will start showing some respect to MLS. Until that happens, all the whining in the world won't make a difference.
  
  You want respect? Win.
  
  I think some of that starts tonight.
  
  England 1-2 USA
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  m2fc

  1 year ago

  just play the game and stop instigating
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  Anonymous

  1 year ago

  To be perfectly honest, i agree that the MLS doesnt get the respect it deserves, but when compared to the leagues in Europe you do have to admit it does pale in comparison, by more than just a little. And I find the assumption that britian has nothing to offer america in culture a little misguided. Infact, Britain and America are the worlds powerhouses for Rock Music, with Muse being widely regaded as the worlds best Live act. And I believe the appetite for Doctor Who is so large in America that its only 3 weeks behind the UK. So I dont accept that we are hypocrits and we do not offer the Americans anything.
  And the point about plastic fans by ossie's dream is not snobbery, i must point out. In chelseas case, their fans have been stereotyped, but its more about loyalty than snobbery. No true fan would call a Man U fan a gloryhunter if they really did support them since they were a kid, but its the ideas that many fans switch alleigances just for the glory that riles us.
  
  Rant over, as Capello might put in a new faces, this should be a gd game, but over 90 minutes I belive Enlands better strength in depth (while not that great) will eventually show, but the USA will hold out for at least an hour id say, they sould be gd enough to press England back for much of the game.
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  Paul Bestall

  1 year ago

  I don't think it's just the MLS the UK has an issue with. Listen to any commentary when an British side plays a European tie or international and the old cliches come flying out.
  We, incorrectly, still think that England are the best team in the world and have the best league in the world. Yes, we had 3 teams in the Champions League semi's this year and last but one swallow doesn't make a summer. The EPL has still only provided the winners of the Champions League 3 times in 15 seasons and in the UEFA Cup/Cup Winners Cup it's the same result. Hardly the stuff of domination is it?
  The old arguement that foreign footballers "Don't like it up them" still pervades British thought and gives us an arrogance that allows people to laugh when we once again fail to win a major tournament at either club or international level. Look at the press coverage of the Rangers v Zenit St Petersburg final. Zenit had destroyed Bayern Munich Leverkusen and beat Marseille, but it seemed all Rangers had to do was turn up to win.
  A level of humility in football would go a long way to detering that and sometimes realising that their are other teams who are actually better than us.
  As for the States, I'd move there tomorrow. I love it.
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  kkfla737

  1 year ago

  I'm in London for the match and wearing a US Soccer shirt and jacket has gotten me snears and a bunch of classless rude comments.
  
  I find it ironic because on the plane I was next to a Parisian guy who spent five hours talking football with me wanting my opinion as a knowledgeable American about French football and eating up anything I told him about the game in the US. He found it somewhat amussing what I told him I expected in London of the English. He said "that is typical of the English."
  
  What's ironic is the reaction starting in the immigration line at Heathrow was of me being a "dumb yank" and knowing nothing about football and comments like "stick to a sport you understand." Now the French have had FAR more success than England in recent years yet their fans don't say these things to me!
  
  Atlanta Pompey, England won't give us respect until we win something? They haven't even made the finals of a tournament since 1966 and don't give France or Holland much respect despite all their success.
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  K. Bowen

  1 year ago

  The reason American soccer fans dislike English soccer fans is because they look down their nose at us when, in fact, it's not like they're exactly lighting up the international game themselves.
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  upnorth

  1 year ago

  There is always ridicule and name calling etc, between rival fans. I wouldn’t take it too seriously if I were you! A minority of people make ignorant remarks, but these people don’t represent the majority.
  
  The English are understandably insecure and frustrated with the performance of their national side, not even managing to qualify for the European Finals. As I understand it football in the US is still very much a minority interest sport, yet the national squad has still managed a reasonable world ranking. It would be the ultimate humiliation for the English team to be overtaken by a nation where most people barely know the rules or take any interest! To be inferior to the football mad Brazilians or Argentineans is one thing, but the US? I think this deep routed fear, and lack of self confidence, may underpin the English lack of respect shown toward the US game.
  
  Exactly how much respect should be shown to the US game? Looking at the proposed line up of the US team for tonight, I’d say not an awful lot. There are 3 players from Fulham (who finished 4th bottom in the EPL this season and just avoided relegation) there’s a defender from Derby! (finished bottom in the EPL), and some guy from Watford (not even an EPL team). Whereas the English squad is predominately Manchester and Chelsea players (this years European Champions league winner and run up). Having said all that, it wouldn’t surprise me if the US won! Oops! There’s that English insecurity and lack of self confidence again.
  
  Paul Bestall – Don’t really agree with everything you’ve said, I think you’re being a bit selective when saying that the EPL has only produced 3 Champions league winners. I think it would be fairer to include European Cup wins as well (i.e. the for-runner to the Champions league) you then find that England is joint top with Italy and Spain, providing 11 winners each.
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  Paul Bestall

  1 year ago

  Fair point regarding the European Cup, English clubs won it 6 years in a row and 7 out of 8 between 77 and 84 but that was 30 years ago and thats the problem.
  Ajax won it 3 years in row, as did Bayern Munich in the 70's too. How far do we go back? Before you know it, we'll be banging on about 1966 all over again or West Auckland, the first team to win the first international trophy when they beat Juventus 6-1 in 1911 !!
  :)
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  upnorth

  1 year ago

  Kartik -
  
  I’m very sorry that some people have made some stupid and provocative remarks towards you. This is a shameful aspect of the British ‘yob’ culture. Please try to turn the other cheek, and don’t end up feeling bitter towards all English people. Also who told you the English don’t give the French or Dutch much respect… you’re French friend perhaps? Any way hope you enjoy the match, I expect there will be plenty of rude comments etc…. but that’s football!
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  down south

  1 year ago

  just to let you know it is not only three english teams who have won the champions league there are actually four. I know aston villa might not seem a team to have ever won the CL but a miracle happened in 1981-82 when they won. also.
  Liverpool 5 times- 1976,77. 1977,78. 1980,81. 1983,84. 2004,05
  Nottingham forest- 1978,79. 1979,80
  Man U- 1998,09. 2007,08.
  
  If you notice there is a period where the league is won 6 times in a row by an english team. Also i think that when a nation has had good football clubs and a decent national team they would not lose there self belief, confidence and a bit of their pomp. It may be the same for caribbean fans of the West Indies cricket team who had so much success in the past.... might be getting a bit to confounding for the american reader.
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  upnorth

  1 year ago

  Paul Bestall –
  
  I think most of the hype about British football comes from the Media, anxious to sell papers or to get us to tune into the match and watch lots of adverts etc. Most people I talk to aren’t quite as confident about the stature of British football in Europe or the world.
  
  Still don’t really agree with you about English clubs in Europe though. English clubs have an indisputably good record in the European / Champions League competitions. You don’t have to rely on results from the dim and distant past; English clubs have won 3 out of the last 10 (30%), 2 out of the last 4 (50%), and have had 6 out of 8 semi finalist in the last 2 (75%). All recent statistics, and the indications are that there may well be more wins in the near future.
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  Jessie

  1 year ago

  I read through all the comments a bit quickly, and all I have to say is that nobody caught the spelling error: 'breathe' the verb is spelled with an 'e' at the end. 'Breath' is the noun. Thus, "eat and breathe NFL football..."
  The two greatest Anglophone nations in the world, and they ain't got no respect for their mother tongue.
  From an American, for the curious, and a big-time 49er Faithful.
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  The Gaffer

  1 year ago

  Sam,
  
  I'm Welsh, so I hope that the USA wins tonight.
  
  Jessie,
  
  Good catch! I'll fix that now.
  
  All,
  
  As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of NFL football :)
  
  Cheers,
  The Gaffer
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  Daryl

  1 year ago

  Great fucking post mate! I love it!
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  Paul Bestall

  1 year ago

  RE: Upnorth, fair comments. :)
  
  Yes, of course, but look at Spanish clubs success in the same period, they've won it 4 times, had the first same country final in 2001 and 3 wins in the UEFA Cup. I just think we need to take a step back sometimes and realise we're not as good as we keep banging on about. What have Spain won since 1964?
  Will Inter Milan, AC Milan, Real Madrid and Barcelona be as poor next season? We can only wait and see.
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  AtlantaPompey

  1 year ago

  True, England has won only one trophy, and that was 42 years ago on home soil with a disputed goal... but at least they have won something. The Gold Cup doesn't count. When we consistently beat quality international competition and actually win a meaningful trophy, then the world will pay attention. I think even our country would pay more attention. Yes, they would be bandwagon jumpers, but that's okay.
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  Burtiboy

  1 year ago

  2-0 to the superior nation. As an Englishman living in Los Angeles, even my son who was born here and carries a US passport roots for the English. When I texted him the result his response was "good good".
  
  Today the US looked no better than a pub team with the English barely getting out of second gear for the majority of the game. The one touch football at times was poetry in motion - whereas the US were labouring aroubd the field liek a bunch of old donkeys.
  
  After this game, the US will still get no respect for their national team and the MLS. Get use to more mediocrity for the next World Cup and beyond.
  
  Cheers
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  jack

  1 year ago

  o come off it, the reason we think american footy is a joke is you all insist you guys r the best, yet i doubt a player in history has decided to go to the mls for a challenge, a physical challenge not like becks' challenge, too be honest if america didnt have the money it does i dont think your squad would be in the top 50 ranked countries in the world, the only intrest any1 has in america, as ever is to get our hands on some of that money you guys have,( that worked out great wit the bloody yanks at liverpool). Face it england is football powerhouse and will always be because of the level of intrest ther is here, and too be frank america has yet to produce a genuine star, or anything near one, plus can i ask what is it with you hating us then but supporting man u or chelski everytime the league comes around? im fine with u tryin to improve stuff in ur country but dont give us ur opinions , support or anything, clubs like liverpool, man u , real madrid etc were built on real fans, im not just saying european, wheneva theres a tour to japan or africa the crowds go wild, u can see they enjoy it but please yanks just dont associate ur pitiful attempt at playin football with us, you want to have this link so you have some real part in international football affairs
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  Michael

  1 year ago

  England is a "football powerhouse"? Really? When was the last time they won a World Cup? Are they even in their own continental championship this summer?
  
  "Powerhouse"? Give me a break. That term should be reserved for nations like Italy, France, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, etc.
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  todd

  1 year ago

  I am an american and I'll be the first to tell you that the MLS is a joke. Everyone over here is a manure fan that drools over becks, and more than half of the manc fans can't even tell why they like them. The class of the premiership is something that we will never see over here, our football will always be subpar and I don't even care. So you brits, rip on our league all you want there are plenty of us over here that know it is crap. I'll be dreaming of Anfield.
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  Jack

  1 year ago

  "And we don’t tease Americans for inventing the word ‘Soccer,’ anyone with half a brain knows it comes from Association Football, we just mock you for being the only country that uses it."
  
  I'm pretty sure that a lot of the other Anglophile countries (Australia (they call Aussie rules football football) and Canada (CFL football, baby!) at least, if not New Zealand and sometimes Ireland (since they play their own Gaelic football)). Just sayin...we're not the only ones who say "soccer."
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  Ant

  1 year ago

  No, sorry Jack, but Australia and NZ call it football. Can't speak for Canada though.
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  Anonymous

  1 year ago

  well i think that puts that arguement to rest, andf no one can argue that our superior footballing abitlity came through, which surprised me even more as were at the end of our season, and the americans (for those in the MLS) have only just begun theirs.
  
  Oh and for the person who stated this - 'They haven’t even made the finals of a tournament since 1966 and don’t give France or Holland much respect despite all their success', finals are the name of the stage of the tournament hosted by a host nation, not the final game contested by two teams, France have won the world cup the same number of times as England, Holland havent, and our top flight has a higher co-effcient tthan both of those allowing the premier league to have 4 teams in the champions league and the FA to enter another 3 into the Uefa cup. Those are some of the reason why we, along with most of Western Europe are known as a footballing power.
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  Anonymous

  12 months ago

  england is a footballin power house and america isnt i dont mean to be rude when i say that but is true not because of how well we play cos lets be honmest at the min we are shit but we have world class stars such as gerrard terry ferdinand owen rooney and us english do not shgow a lack of respect the dutch or the french if you look on some of the media channels after we didntqualify for the euros holland and france coinsidentley were the places they were looking towards in terms of how they develop young players and how much better technically they were than us and we do not mock u.s soccer but most people would say that u.s soccer is no where near as good as ours and it isnt i dont say that as a mark of disrespect but honesty i dont think the mls is thatgood of a league but in ten or fifteen years i can see america being a global power with lokes of adu and altisore coming through if you can keep developing players like that then someday you can win a world cup
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  Chester City Fan

  10 months ago

  I personally don't have a problem with america, Although you speak the same language as us (England) your culture is a lot different. I think Football (Soccer) is kind of like a new sport in America. The problem I have with MLS is that there doesn't appear to be the same amount of passion as you get in the Premier League and Football League, La Liga, Serie A. This therefore makes MLS seem quite tacky and silly. It annoys me that Americans moan at the English and if anything I think that Americans are jealous. But you don't ever do anything but moan, If you want MLS to be respected then start showing the world how good it can be. For instance the only MLS team I know about is LA Galaxy an thats only because of DB Moving there. How can you expect people to respect or take interest in something the know very little about.
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