EPL Talk - Latest Comments in Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

NotaPhonein — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:16:19 -0000

I was using Valencia to make a point that Rafa is not an advocate of what you call boring football. He had success there.

You also fail, again, to pick up on the 'compact' remark as a defence tactic when the opposition have the ball - and the fact that Gerrard is meant to burst forward at different times of the game. When you are at the ground you notice these things!

Also, the really big problem with 'he should play and he shouldn't' is that how do you know it will work? Hindsight and speculation is a wonderful thing but it doesn't necessarily mean the results will change does it?

Truth is, Babel is being groomed into the English game gradually. At the moment he gives the ball away more than Kewell and is sometimes pushed off the ball too easily - that is why he is being brought in gradually. Riise is having a shocker this season - then again, Aurelio isn't the same player as last year either, so it's 50-50 on that. Benayoun has been quietly effective and has scored some important goals.

The other thing to note is that if the manager goes now - so will several of the players. Cue another several years of rebuilding. Rafa needs at least another 2 players who can win matches and after one summer that he has been able to spend on a level with Utd and Chelski - he needs more time.

If you were a fan you would understand where I am coming from - but as you aren't it's easy to just look at the results and not realise the extent of the work that Rafa has put into the club.

Interesting you mention motivation.... thats apparently why the ignorant owners sounded out Klinsmann as they thought he could motivate the players without them having to spend any more money. Absolute idiocy of the highest order - the guy is untested at club level and there would have been riots in this city had he been appointed.

Continuity and stability - Fergie had it (won nothing for 7 seasons), Wenger has been backed (after two seasons finishing BEHIND Liverpool), Rafa needs it!

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

Michael — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:07:10 -0000

Listen, I don't care about Valencia! This is a different team in a different league with different players; what Rafa did at Valencia doesn't matter!

I have no personal feelings toward Rafa, I don't either like him or dislike him. What I see is a team with a lot of talent and is clearly underachieving, and when that's the case, it has to go on the manager for not motivating his players and not putting his players in the best position to win. When he consistently sticks with Kuyt instead of Crouch up front and Kewell and Benayoun on the wings instead of starting Babel and Riise at left back, that's on the manager. Liverpool are a much better team than their place in the table indicates, and someone has to be accountable for that. Would you rather get rid of all the players or get rid of the manager?

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

Shakira Graham — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:16:18 -0000

Liverpool havent been in the title race for almost 20 years now, like this season is any different.

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

NotaPhonein — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:14:46 -0000

And you obviously missed my comments about Gerrard and the comparison with Aimar at Valencia.

Presuming you do know about these facts - then you should be able to see Gerrard 'roaming' at different times in the game is part of the plan, as is the wingers swapping flanks etc.

Surely you do your research before you slag a team off.

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

NotaPhonein — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:11:39 -0000

But you do have to acknowledge that you can prepare a team, have confidence but still give silly goals away or miss chances. That is what football is about, that is what makes the form book sometimes go out the window.

Also consider the fact that when you draw or lose you analyse why. If you play bad it is easy to analyse, if you play well and lose it feels like an injustice - and it is times like these that you look beyond the actual scoreline.

It is obvious you dislike Rafa, but I think your personal dislike of him is clouding your vision. He needs more time - just as Ferguson and Wenger have had. And he also needs money to spend on quality players.

I have watched 'pool since the 70's and the key thing is always stability and continuity. That is what we need now, another manager will take years again to rebuild. Rafa has overhauled the youth system too - but this will take a few years to produce top players (like Arsenal - who also let many go in the initial stages).

This is what I mean when I say look beyond the results. In England the manager does a lot more than just coach the team. Rafa has done a tremendous amount of work behind the scenes - which would all be undone were a new manager to come in.

Interesting that you fail to even comment about Valencia.

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

Michael — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:40:57 -0000

Ask anyone around any parts, the only thing that matters is results. If you don't get them, you're not doing your job; if you get them, you're doing what you're supposed to do. Simple as that.

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

NotaPhonein — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:22:13 -0000

Your view of Rafa is clearly distorted and I'd be interested to know how much you actually know about the guy's footballing philosophy.

I know a fair bit as I used to watch Valencia after they impressed at Anfield when Gerard Houllier was manager. I was impressed by their fluency and movement and exactly the opposite of what you said - the fact that players were passing and moving - not unlike the Liverpool of old.

I also know Rafa has said recently that Gerrard is a key player but that he has to judge when to burst forward. When you see Gerrard roaming in games - this usually comes with dialogue between him and the bench (you don't always see this on TV!!). When he does 'roam' you will see other players adjust their positioning slightly.

If you look back at Valencia - Aimar used to play in the midfield and get forward too!

I guess you are only interested in results - you have made that clear but you do have to look at the bigger picture. The Villa result was a fluke and Villa know they got out of Liverpool with a fortuatous point. Villa played poorly all over the pitch except defence. Liverpool played well apart from converting chances.

Between the other top 3 - as I said, we have beaten them all - just not in the premiership every time. We've beaten Arsenal twice, Chelski 3 times, Man Utd once since Rafa arrived. Not ideal but the games are often close and settled on one isolated chance or incident (not that you would be interested as you only consider the results).

I will also say that since November since the owners started meddling and leaking press stories about Rafa, this has affected the team. It is still affecting the club - it has to stop. The owners for all their initial promise are showing their complete and utter ignorance of the English game. By approaching an inexperienced club manager they have made themselves a laughing stock.

Ask anyone round these parts (yes, Liverpool) and you will know Rafa has the support of the fans on the terraces - not the internet or phone ins.

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

Michael — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:26:30 -0000

Read my profile Notaphonein, I'm not a fan of any particular team in the Premiership, especially not Chelsea or Everton. I'm an American with no rooting interest in any one team, I just appreciate entertaining soccer and look at it from as unbiased a perspective as I can.

The suggestion that Gerrard does what he wants is correct, and that's NOT what Benitez wants him to do. Benitez's system really doesn't allow for a midfield player to have a free role; it's all about discipline and staying in your position, not freelancing anywhere you want to go.

When Villa beat Chelsea the first time, that was a full-strength lineup for the Blues and my hat was off to Villa. This most recent draw was against a much-weakaened Chelsea side; go back and look at the lineups from that game and you'll see what I mean.

Look, "bossing" a game doesn't mean anything, it's the goals on the scoreboard that matter. That's why the possession % stat is useless, it's a false indicator of who's in control of the game.

Your record against the other teams in the "Big Four" is crap, you're right about that. What that tells me is you can beat the minnows of the Premiership and the teams not quite at your level simply because you have more overall talent on the roster than those lesser teams, which is something I've said all along. It also tells me you don't have a manager who's as tactically skillful in the Premiership to get the job done. Rafa is great in Europe, but poor in the Premiership.

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

NotaPhonein — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:46:01 -0000

This has become a football phone in and you have to pick through the comments to find any sense of realism and knowledge.

The author has his own agenda which is fair enough. Some of the 'fans' here have theirs.

There is a suggestion that Gerrard 'does what he wants' - now correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that what Rafa wants him to do. And don't let the other poster forget, he scored 23 goals from the 'wing' (or for the more observant - the 'free roaming role') two seasons ago!

If Liverpool were fortunate to get a well worked equalising goal - what was Villa's second? Well worked or a fluke? No argument!

So because Villa beat chelski and drew with them, then Chelski were understrength? Liverpool dominated the game - Villa were lucky from a badly defended set piece and a fluke. Other than that, Liverpool bossed it. The issue is in the penalty box - chances are not being converted at present.

In Michael's world, the players are not playing for the manager so he obviously has some inside information or a unique gift that other pundits in the media have not spotted. Didn't Torres, Mascherano, Agger, Alonso, Pennant, Benyoun, Babel etc all join Liverpool BECAUSE of Rafa ..... check the records mate!

Sure our record against the other big 3 is crap, but what does that tell you. We have beaten all of them at some point though - in the CL and FA cup, we're just not at that same level of consistency yet.

Re: Funding, the first summer Rafa was allowed to buy big and he bought quality in Torres and Babel. The owners won't sanction any more spending so his hands are tied, but you can see the difference in the players he bought last summer - they were a notch above the transfer level we have been at for years. He needs more backing!

Remember Valencia as a previous poster said!

I'm guessing Michael is a Chelski/Everton fan. Bitter and loving it that Liverpool are not at the races at the moment.

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

Michael — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 00:49:03 -0000

Haha it's ok, no problem; as I said, I appreciate the compliment anyway.

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

timmyg — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 23:56:07 -0000

oops, sorry michael. gotta go wipe the egg of my face now!

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

Jazzdocent — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 23:27:28 -0000

Name calling Liverpool fans are a good sign why the club's luck is down. England football fan culture cracks me up sometime.

"Our team is playing terrible..It's not the players who underperform and are paid millions of dollars, it's not the manager, who picks the players and draws up the tactics..no no no..It's the owners!"

Benetiz is a poor manager. Liverpool has become a boring, inept team. I would rather watch Bolton hack the football around, at least they aren't suppose to be a huge team.

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

Shakira Graham — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:44:16 -0000

May the Liverpool implosion continue. Karma is a bitch and it's coming back to bite the vermin.

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

Michael — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:04:10 -0000

Actually timmyg, I wrote this article, but thanks for the kind words anyway.

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

timmyg — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:59:57 -0000

ps good article gaffer!

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

timmyg — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:59:41 -0000

Here's EVERYTHING you need to know about Rafa and why he needs to go:

1) Liverpool fans wanted the premiership this season. Argue all you want scousers but deep down you know its true. Rafa couldnt even deliver contention come October. Additionally, the closest he's been come the new years is 11 points off the pace -- and that was last season.

2) Rafa cannot defeat the other members of 'the big four.' In 21 matches against them his squads have only acquired 15(!!) points.

3)Despite the lineup changes, he constantly sticks with Dirk Kuyt and Riise.

4)His remarks about Gillette and Hicks not understanding the transfer market several months ago were wholly classless. He maneuvered himself between the fans and the owners, and somehow the fans got his back.

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

wanderer_abroad — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:59:36 -0000

I think people are right to criticize Benitez because of his poor record in the transfer market. Torres and Agger are probably the only two real quality players that he has signed (excluding Mascherano because his deal isn't permanent yet). People keep calling for him to be backed with more money, but do you want Liverpool to go broke for some more Kuyt's, Voronin's, Pennant's and Sissoko's? It is perfectly right to call Benitez a tactical genius, because he is, but tactics can only save your butt so many times. There is a time when you need real quality to do the speaking, and I'm afraid Liverpool don't have that. They definetly don't have the quality of Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea, yet they should be doing better than the likes of Villa, City and (I'm sorry TT but...) Everton. If Liverpool don't sort themselves out soon, the prospect of serious investment and improvement at City, Villa and Everton really threatens their place as being Englands best 4th placed team.

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

eplnfl — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:29:40 -0000

No one seems to mention that it appears that the American business model may result in a very large and very quick profit for the current owners of Liverpool. Last I looked Communism has failed miserably?

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

lfc norway — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:34:36 -0000

smack raffa but dont fire him.smack tom and jerry and kick them out of anfield whit rick gayrry!! in with dic ,quresma and villa

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

Richard — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:14:49 -0000

Parry does need a good smack.

The thing that really exites me ( Except for Rachel stevens ) Is all the new youth players, most have signed because of one man, good times lie ahead, who knows if 2-3 become quality.
What would be the point in sacking Rafa, out of acorns Oak trees grow.

YNWA

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

King Kong — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:54:00 -0000

Dan, lend me your spanner and I'll smack that bastard Parry's head.

I can see the smirk in his smile. Must be 2-3 million richer for arranging that deal. I hope there is such a thing as Hell.

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

Dom — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:52:17 -0000

Listen to Seesense above. The truth is that some of the players are seriously underperforming such as Kuyt, Alonso and Reina and to make things worse others just simply aren't good enough i.e Risse, Aurelio, Arbeloa, Voronin. When you look at the players that aren't good enough how many of them are Rafa's first choice? Rafa wanted Heinze to be left back this season rather than Risse or Aurelio and as for Arbeloa that should have been Alves if Rafa had had the funds he deserved for winning a Champions League final. Could you see United or Chelsea signing these players? We also would have had the finished product right and left wings with Simao and Malouda rather than what Rafa settled on with Pennant and Babel (I love these 2 guys but they aren't as experienced as the former 2 and do not have the same ability to be matchwinners). Kuyt and Alonso should be playing so much better and this is not down to Rafa, they are not leaders and once their heads went down they were unable to have the strength of character to get over it. Rafa could not have foreseen this.

I do not understand why tonight's loss is Rafa's fault. The team played well but we are not getting any luck at the moment. How many times have we seen this kind of thing happen this season? A lot. Our defence has been shambolic so far with Hyypia, Risse, Reina, Aurelio all to blame at different times - again this is not the fault of Rafa.

Rafa does have flaws and I think it is a mistake to keep signing mediocre La Liga players. I think he has to look at some more dogged and determined uk based players such as the likes of Sidwell and Lescott but we all know how much they cost and Benitez is like Wenger in this regard. Still Arsenal have been able to bring in more high profile players over the years (Henry, Pirres, Viera, that little Spanish striker guy, Van Persie,
Rosicky etc.) when we have only
recently acquired our first three, being Cisse, Mascherano and Torres.

Get hold of yourselves people. Rafa is still Boss and knows what he is doing but he has a much more difficult job than anyone else without funds and has had to start completely from scratch after Houllier aoart from Gerrard.

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

Dan — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:50:11 -0000

Personally if I was Rafa I would have sold Crouch for £10m , Sold Sissoko for £8 - £10m , sold Carson to Villa for £10m, got rid of Risse for about £6m and got rid of either Voronin or Kuyt, then I would have bought Mascherano and brought in two decent players.

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

Dan — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:47:33 -0000

LFC Norway you are so right, just reading your comments about Kuyt, I completely agree. Must be the worst striker playing for any of the big four

Re: Changes Must be Made at Liverpool

Dan — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:44:12 -0000

Why don't LFC Fans protest against Rick Parry - the bloody cheek he had to attend that match, I feel sorry for Moores but not Parry. Not one bit