EPL Talk - Latest Comments in 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Sanjay — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:33:17 -0000

Also, for those claiming that European football is the most exciting, how about this..
The Champions League final had just2 goals and had to be settled by a penalty shoot out, while the first leg of the Copa Libertadores had 6 goals and was a very exciting game and dare I say it even more exciting than Man United v Chelsea.
We just have to face it, nothing and I mean nothing can really compare with South American football as far as excitement is concerned. I think theres just something about the mentality of the players which shows in how committed they are while attacking..

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Johnathan Starling — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:07:39 -0000

Sammy,

Please do the entire world a favor...AND GET OVER IT! Quite frankly the more Kartik ignores you the more I am going to laugh.

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Kartik — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:58:20 -0000

Nothing would make me happier than to see the Kiwis win that playoff. The Aussies were so arrogant in their move to the AFC simply assuming they'd have no trouble winning trophies and qualifying.

I should also point out I have seen a number of CONCACAF teams advancing to the next stage in person within the last year and a half. The US several times, Mexico once (vs the US), Canada once (vs Panama), Honduras three times (vs Columbia, vs Switzerland and vs Venezuela), Guatemala once (vs Panama), Haiti (vs Jamaica) and Jamaica (vs Haiti and vs Columbia). While we no longer have MLS in south florida we get more non Mexican/American friendlies than any other place in the country so I've seen all the above mentioned teams and have made many of my assumptions based on actually watching these teams unlike many of you who base it on the reputations in the media and biases of the British media in particular.

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Sanjay — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:49:35 -0000

Yup, your right, there is a playoff between the OFC and the AFC. It could very well be New Zealand vs Australia!

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Kartik — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:31:23 -0000

A great sit down with JP Dellecamara, if you want to understand the American Soccer mind a little more from Goal.com

http://www.goal.com/en-US/Articolo.aspx?Contenu...

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Kartik — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:30:20 -0000

Nas,

Perhaps it is because I am American and I support my national program. I'm just stating my opinion about the current state of the program compared to where it was 5-10 years ago. By the way I am far from alone in my opinion. Many think I am "too soft" on the USSF in my blogs and on my radio show. I get more complaints about complimenting the effort of individual players in losses than I do from people like you who assume a national team is like a club team and you can root for whomever you want. That's not how it works. You root for your country!

In fairness the listeners to my show are like me> Driven by the national team first and foremost and not as interested in the daily working of club football. even when I watch "Yanks Abroad" it's with an eye towards the next hurdle for the national team. So perhaps we all have a tendency to hyper analyze every game and every opponent. But the fact remains many think I am soft on the team in particular after this last qualifier. Others like my CSRN colleague Johnathan from the Third Half aren't so kind on his blog and on his show. I happen to disagree with him strongly about of a few of his assessments but find some others spot on.

Sanjay,

I agree with your list. Does OFC playoff with the AFC now? if so how ironic if Australia finishes in that play off position!

I agree with Simon. (not the impostor Simon whose posts have been rightfully deleted.) We'll finish in the top 3, probably third perhaps 2nd if second choice sven tanks mexico as it is possible he will. Sven is going to have more trouble than people think with El Tri.

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

The Gaffer — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:07:21 -0000

Readers,

Sammy Patel has been banned from future posts on EPL Talk. He logged on last night and posted several messages under the names "Kartik" and "Simon Burke" trying to instigate trouble.

Those posts where he pretended to be Kartik and Simon Burke have been deleted, and Sammy has been blocked from posting anymore.

Thanks for your patience.

Cheers,
The Gaffer

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Sanjay — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:54:32 -0000

Kartik, You may have made a few very valid points regarding CONCACAF and the USMNT. But, I'm sorry when I'm ranking different geographic regions based on the depth and quality of football, CONCACAF comes 4th and some might say 5th.
This is what I think.
1)UEFA ( some might say CONMEBOL but I think UEFA has more depth)
2)CONMEBOL
3)CAF
4) CONCACAF
5)AFC
6)OFC

What do you'll think about the comparison between say Asia and North America? Personally, I think North America is much better but there a few Asian teams like Australia, Iran, Iraq, Japan, and maybe Saudi Arabua which could give most North American teams more than a run for their money.

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

nas — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 01:10:11 -0000

kartik, bro why do you talk so much trash about the US team yet in all of your posts use the term "we" when talking about the team. let the real US fans use that term and go jump on bandwagon of some other team CONCACAF team that you talk so highly of.

I'm not saying the US is the a great team more like an average team but they way your talking that they are minnows is complete garbage.

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Travis — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 00:30:22 -0000

Katrik,
Some of your points are valid and worth justifying but the fact remains that the U.S. is the defending CONCACAF Gold Cup champs which means they got it done on the field. In every tournament you can make points to show where a team got lucky (remember italy vs australia 06?). Was there luck involved to win the Gold CUP? Absolutely, thats part of the game.

And yes, I am aware not every team was at full strength but you can only beat the team in front of you and thats what the U.S. did.
As for Mexico..how many more times must we beat them before people will admit we are the better team...not the more skilled team...the better team!

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Simon Burke — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:52:21 -0000

Sorry Sonya - isnt the idiot - the one above, Sonya beat me to the post :)

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Simon Burke — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:51:39 -0000

This last fella is an idiot.
Indian, American, English - who cares?
Take your shocking grammar and spelling to a flame blog. Moron.

Kartik as for Honduras, they do have Suazo and a reasonable record in recent years over the US but despite that 3-2 win at RFK (where 2/3 of the crowd cheered Honduras and through urine at the rest of us) I will say that Honduras never went on to qualify. A league table never lies about your overall quality and Honduras didnt cut it then and I doubt they will now.

Costa Rica are decent in Costa Rica only and are pitiful in World Cups barring the time they beat Scotland who are pitiful anyway (yes I am English).

End of the day, the US have got a better draw for now - but they'll be thrown in with the other group top 2's in time and I wager will finish top 3 there.

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Sonya — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:51:09 -0000

Kartik's entitled to his opinions. Although, I must put in my two cents and simply say I think the US team have a fighting chance in terms of qualifying.

And Sammy Patel's personal attack had absolutely no relevance to the question of whether Euro is better than WC, so I think he's more vulnerable to mockery than Kartik is.

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

sammy patel — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:49:43 -0000

as i have said before, i will repeat myself again,..
kartik when will you embrace your indian roots?

your last name gives it all away.

ill tell you this my friend, concacaf is not the hardest region, the hardest region is afc. this is where your home nation plays. why do you keep denying your ethnicity? look at yourself in the mirror and tell yourself repeatedly, “i am not the american i think i am”. you may have been born here, or maybe you were just naturalized i dont know, but one thing i know is that you need to embrace your ethnic culture. it is very rich and you should be proud. having said that, please stop promoting concacaf, it does not make you any more american. it only makes you look a bit douchy. just a bit. so i wag my finger at you my friend.

kartik why do you ignore this subject? is it a sensitive one for you? what harm has india done to you? hvaing such a rich culure must have only made you a much more richer person. india has done no harm, so please do no harm onto it. please embrace where you came from. do not shy from it. be proud my friend. be very very proud.

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Kartik — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:43:19 -0000

FACT: Mexico made the Semifinals of Copa America and has advanced out of the group stage of six consecutive Copa Americas and four consecutive world cups. The US has advanced out of the group stage in one Copa America (1995) and only two world cups since 1934.

FACT: Mexico has defeated Brazil three times since 2005. The US has defeated Brazil once in our history, in 1998.

FACT: Mexico defeated Germany in 2005, the most recent meeting. The US has lost three consecutive meetings against the Germans after winning two in a row when we had a MUCH better team than now.

FACT: Mexico is ranked higher in the FIFA World Rankings.

I will point out I think Sven's hiring is a big big risk. Things could blow up if he doesn't grasp the culture of mexican football quickly.

FACT: Honduras reached the final of Copa America in 2001 and defeated the US at RFK the same year in a qualifier.

FACT: Honduras absolutely dominated the US for 80 plus minutes in the 2005 Gold Cup before the US scored two very late goals. Honduras has not played the US since but the Hondurans have since improved led by David Suazo of Inter while the US has regressed.

FACT: Costa Rica finished ahead of the USA in the first qualifying group for the 2002 WC and in
the Hexagonal.

FACT: The US needed pks to defeat Canada in the 2002 Gold Cup and Panama in 2005. Then in 2007 Panama scored a goal against the US down a man. The US only scored its two goals up a man. Then in the semis the US got a gift pk call to take a 2-0 lead but then gave up a goal and was fortunate that the ref absolutely blew Gooch's backpass that led to what should have been the tying Canadian goal. Besides the US was the host country and yet still struggled to beat Canada and Panama.

Canada has a better squad than the US if you compare player to player. Landon Donovan is better than any Canadian player, but after that a huge dropoff occurs. DeRo, DeGuzman, Rob Friend, Atiba Hutchinson and even Ali Gerba are all better attacking players than the 2nd best US attacking player.

I could be wrong but right now I'd take Canada's team over the US. But they are of course hamstrung by an inept CSA, and being in the group of death.

I actually hope you are right. Nothing would make me happier than to be proven wrong and us be able to look back and say US Soccer was so strong in the late part of this decade. But I don't see the players we used to have on a technical or tactical level. The fact that Canada, Honduras, even to a certain extent Costa Rica and Jamaica have developed these players is a huge cause for concern as time goes on.

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Travis — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:31:05 -0000

Katrik,
I am not dissing CONCACAF...it is a very difficult region to qualify from but that doesnt change that fact that you are still only offering your opinion on why the U.S. is 4th in CONCACAF right now.
Fact: Within a two week period Argentina destroyed Mexico tied the U.S. (Advantage US)
Fact: Mexico hasnt beaten the U.S. in 10 games
(Advantage US)
Fact: U.S. are Gold Cup Champs...this puts us ahead of any other team purely based on merit. (Advantage US)
You may "wish" the U.S. is the 4th team but to emphatically make that case would leave you open for mockery.

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Kartik — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:13:31 -0000

Actually only two of the three can qualify ahead of the US because they've all been grouped together.

Yes, Mexico is suspect right now. Will Sven straighten them out? I have my doubts and have already heard of some serious resistance within the mexican football community to his methods and style.

Columbia was pretty poor too last year in the Copa. The US, yes a C team!

Why can you guys not be all as reasoned as Simon in your opinion?

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Simon Burke — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:55:01 -0000

Kartik
Based on your analysis then , Honduras, Canada and MExico will all qualify ahead of the US for WC2010. We'll see...
BTW, Mexico isnt playing great football and just had o change their coach.

Copa last year was fine but won by a B team and one of the 12 was a C Team. Peru/Bolivia hardly good sides...
The football was at times very entertaining but the Euros have been equally entertaining - this semi thats on right now is great stuff.

As Gaffer says - its all football and its been fun so long as its not got Italy and Spain in it.

As for the Euros being better than the WC - the WC is more prestigious but this EUro (and certainly not the 2004 cup) has been fantastic.

Simon

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

kkfla737 — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:41:04 -0000

Sorry. Meant more $$$ and a better set up than Canada, NOT Mexico. My bad.

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

kkfla737 — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:40:13 -0000

The US right now based on current form and quality of the player in their pool are behind Mexico, Honduras and Canada. Maybe we're 4th. Without Landon Donovan who so many eurosnobs like to bash we'd be further down the list.

Now the USSF has more $$$$ and a better setup of youth facilities, training etc than Honduras and Mexico, but I remind you if you actually followed the game in the early part of this decade that the US needed to win its last match in the first group stage to get out of the group in 2nd place, and had to draw its last match of the hexaganol simply to finish 3rd and qualify for the World Cup. And that cycle we went to the WC Quarters, so don't diss CONCACAF and assume because some no nothing radio commentators in this country say "CONCACAF sucks" that it's so. I would dare England or Spain to go try and play an away fixture in Central America on a torn up pitch with glass and urine being thrown at them and see how much they like it.

Dissing Copa America is fine if you are eurocentric. I never once said the South American teams are better. I simply said the football is more entertaining. That's a reasonable opinion, isn't it, or does one have to conform to a European standard to be taken seriously. Or do I know nothing about the sport because I prefer a certain style of the game that's not British or European?

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Travis — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:29:13 -0000

Katrik, grouping the U.S. with the "minnows" tells me you are either a soccer snob or just want to make flamboyant statements. Not one of the 3-4 best teams in CONCACAF??? That is purely one mans opinion with no available evidence to back this up. If you make a statement like that, please provide evidence to support your point.
Furthermore, you say Copa America is such a great tournament and better then Euro??? Tell me when was the last time a team from South American made a WC QF other then Brazil or Argentina........I guess that means that they're all minnows.

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Kartik — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:49:06 -0000

Dave the fact that you cite that 2007 Gold Cup match that I was at shows how little you follow CONCACAF.

In that tournament T&T fielded an entire side of "B" players not one of which was on the squad for the two legs of WC qualifiers. Why? A dispute with Jack Warner about pay disputes after WC 2006.

The US did not beat Guatemala fairly handily. 1-0. Was at that game also and the Guatemalans effectively employed a bracket of players around Donovan to stifle his service.

In all likelyhood the US will qualify. But if FIFA's officials had drawn the US ball instead of Mexico's in Group B, the US would in all likelyhood be done after this round. Crazy? A much better US team that ended up getting to the quarterfinals of the World Cup in 2002 needed to beat Barbados in its last match to get out of the first group stage and then finished in third seven points behind leader Costa Rica in the last group stage. CONCACAF isn't the pushover you Eurosnobs think it is.

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Dave @ Soccer FanHouse — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:13:12 -0000

I know I shouldn't come here to feed the trolls, but anyone who honestly believes this current U.S. team won't qualify for the 2010 World Cup out of CONCACAF is smoking crack.

In third-round qualifying, the USA is in a group with Guatemala, Trinidad & Tobago and Cuba. The USA beat Guatemala and T&T fairly handily in the group stages of the 2007 Gold Cup. Cuba, meanwhile, did not make it out of its group. Bob Bradley's team should win that group easily and make it to the final round, which is a six-team round robin.

In 2006, the lowest automatic qualifier needed only 16 points in ten games to make it through to Germany. So you're telling me this USA side, which is stocked with young players from European clubs and held Argentina to a 0-0 draw, isn't capable of winning half its games in CONCACAF and drawing two more to get through?

Please. It will take a collapse of epic proportions for the USA to miss the 2010 World Cup. I can't vouch for what they'll do once they get to South Africa -- our only worthwhile striker is but 18 years old -- but they *will* get to South Africa, and if you believe otherwise... well, you're entitled to your opinion, I guess, but you're as wrong as a telecom immunity bill.

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

nas — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 02:36:38 -0000

karthik your an idiot...how can you say that the US are minnows, they made it out of the group 2 out of the last 4 world cups and that is not minnow status. Plus they were the only team in the entire tournament to take points from Italy and come on that group was ridiculous are you going to say the Czech Rep. are minnows cause they have only made 1 world cup out of the last 4.
I also doubt that you have ever watched CONCACAF football because no respectable soccer analyst would ever mention that Mexico and the US would not qualify from CONCACAF because unlike what you say it is pretty weak.

Please I watched the Copa America and it did not have the quality of the Euros, come on Brazil b squad won the tournament and if you want, call the US c squad a disappointment.

hey check out the asian qualifying Saudi Arabia 5 wins out of 6 games and first in their group but since you watch so much soccer they probably wont qualify.

Who cares if a minnow runs up against a Italy, Germany, or France. They qualified so they should get to play. A team like Senegal would not have upset France because you would not give them the chance to play.

Re: 5 Reasons Why The European Football Championship Is Better Than The World Cup

Moose Calling — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:45:27 -0000

I agree with Sanjay and to a lesser extent with Kartik and Betsy's Bolton Bum Baster .

The Cup of African Nations absolutely produces the most exciting, dramatic wide open football outside the world cup.

Copa America is good, but not as good as CAN.

Actually the CONCACAF Gold Cup is better than the Euros in some ways as well. The US and Mexico don't have to qualify which isn't fair, but the other participants all go through qualifying and since unlike UEFA who has as many World Cup spots almost as teams that play in the Euro, it's a massive win at all cost tournament for those CONCACAF countires that qualify. Many of the island nations know they will never make the World Cup but they build towards Gold Cup qualifying because it something they can get to. Same for many nations in the Asian Cup.

The euros is not everything and world football is not simply european football.